Come Back to Reality Eagles Fans
About a month ago, my buddy Dave Jacober submitted his first posting to 27pitches; it focused on a guy named Tiger and something about infidelity. Anyway, Dave is back in the saddle and wants the floor so that he can address all the Eagles fans that have been planning Donovan’s exile from town following the Cowboys loss. I will say this: I understand the frustrations of those who believe that #5 has had his opportunities to bring a title to Philly and that if it hasn’t happened by now that it won’t; however, I’m with Dave on this one — I might as well have written this post myself. And now, without further adieu, I present the next chapter in “The Book of Jacober.”
Recently I have found myself reading the Philadelphia papers, pundits, and bloggers about the future of the Eagles potential 2010/2011 play caller and who it should be. Look, I live in NYC and come from the New England sports media so I get it – we in the northeast can be tough, but tough shouldn’t mean dense. First I think all Eagles fans have to excuse themselves from this argument about who should play QB for the flying Eagles next year. My reason, most of you cannot look at the situation clearly and rationally because you are way to passionate, which is ok; it is hard for me to rationally look at the Patriots and make unemotional judgments about players, coaches, and even fourth and two calls. So here is a logical, unemotional argument on why your QB next year should be D. McNabb.
First off, think about this: aside from P.Manning, Brees, Brady, and maybe Rivers (although he hasn’t won a playoff game) and Big Ben, who else would you like to have back there? Face it folks, you have a top ten QB in the league who not only takes your team to the postseason but has won games when he gets there. You don’t think Chicago, Washington (well forget Washington), Carolina, Oakland and 20 other teams would rather have McNabb than the fellows they have? Carolina gave Jake Delhomme $20 million guaranteed because he had been to a Superbowl and there are not that many Quarterbacks out there that have. If you don’t believe me ask their fans and they will all tell you the same thing; they would trade the dude they have for the dude you have in a hot second.
Should he stay or should he go? Vote on the right hand side of the page.
Here we go, 11-year starter. Runner up for an MVP in 2000, has thrown for 32,873 yards. 216 career touchdowns. Now for the important stats, he has taken your team to 5 NFC title games from 2001-2009; and one Superbowl. He has lead the Eagles on 24 game-winning drives throughout his career. If you want a point of comparison of active NFL players he has the third best winning percentage of any of NFL quarterback behind Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Hell, if he is playing in any other city people would already be reserving him a spot in Canton with that resume. Up until this year the Eagles are always the team to beat in the NFC. The issue, my dear Eagles fans, is not with your QB — it’s with the hefty chap with the stash patrolling the sidelines…Andy Reid. Don’t believe me? Let’s go back to Jacksonville 2005 when the Eagles came roaring back against the Patriots in the Superbowl. Watch the game again: there was terrible clock management and horrid play calls, which prevented you from hoisting the Lombardi trophy. (Editor’s note: Jacober must have reached into a grab bag of examples for this; Andy Reid’s atrocious play calling has provided Eagles fans with headaches for the better part of a decade.)
“Less cheese steaks more Madden to learn how the clock works.”
Are you serious? Wiz WITH
Secondly, how many times has McNabb had any real weapons to get the ball to, aside from this year? Freddy Mitchell — what’s he doing now? James Thrash, Todd Pinkston I mean really. The one true blue chip weapon that has been in Philly aside from #5 is #36 but he can’t stay healthy and is the best all around player in the game. Now, moving forward you have two very legit receivers a third option in Celek and if Westbrook can make it make back from his brain being bruised it’ll make a nice 1-2 punch with him and McCoy.
So if you really believe that Kevin Kolb or Mike Vick is the answer at Quarterback then I’m sorry — you just are not looking at the situation rationally, and you need to sit yourself in front of TV and watch some other games on Sunday aside from your beloved Eagles. The Pats got bounced out the playoffs just as quick as the Eagles did and you don’t here me calling for Tom Brady to be run out of town (although on side note, Tom, if you are reading this, when you were dating Bridgette you were winning Superbowl rings and MVP races, so while I am not the superstitious sort it would seem to me that the Brazilian needs to go, just until you retire).
Anyway, next year Donavan will move into the top 20 in passing All-Time and has constantly played hurt and singlehandedly willed the Eagles to at least two of the those NFC title games. The issue Eagles fans is with your coach; find someone who can manage the game in the last two minutes, and a coach who believes that you can pass to set up the run not just pass to set up more passing. Draft a lineman so that you can protect McNabb or some ball hawking safety to play next to Samuels or someone who can consistently get pressure on the other teams quarterback. The difference between your team and the Vikings, Saints, and even Colts this year is that their defense can stop people when they have to; but most importantly, they don’t lose close games because aside from Brad Childress (a Reid lackey) they can manage the game in the forth quarter. Oh and all of those teams (minus the Saints) don’t nearly have the offense the Eagles had this year. I’m not writing this to come to the aid of #5 but merely to put things into perspective. So be leery of what you wish for in the city of brotherly love; cause if #5 departs this off season the Eagles will be picking at number 5 in New York the following April.
Dave J
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Reader Comments
LIKE THE FOUR SEASONS TIME FOR A CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, I disagree with so much here I don’t even know where to start. First of all you can’t talk about getting rid of Reid because he has signed an extension and will be there for the next 3-4 years, so give that part up. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result. After 11 years with the same duo obviously something needs to change if they want any hope of actually winning the Super Bowl. And Westbrook has NEVER been the best all-around player in the league. When he was in his prime so was Tomlinson and he has always been better, as well as Faulk, S-Jax, etc.. He was a great player but he’s done. I’m also sick of hearing people say McNabb never had any weapons. He had one of the best o-lines in the league and had a great defense, and who was Tom Brady throwing to or even Eli Manning this year as he outperformed McNabb. And in addition to the guys you mentioned, I’d rather have Eli, Warner, Rodgers, Favre, Ryan and possibly even Schaub.
My reference to BRady in the above post was when he won three Super Bowls in the earlier part of this decade sans Welker or Moss and actually throwing to Branch, Patten, Givens, etc..
I understand your attempted logic here, but let me try and reword it for you. They should have gotten rid of Andy Reid, but they didn’t, so now they should get rid of the guy that they shouldn’t get rid of because it will even it out. Sound about right?
Reid should have gone, we agree on that, but he’s here for the next few years and we have to deal with it. But is that really a good reason to get rid of a top 10 QB in a league where good QBs are an ever-increasing endangered species?
Also, nice Eli reference, but surely you must admit that his “better” numbers are in part due to the fact that he played 2.5 more games, no?
I would assume that with a new contract in place that the Eagles upper brass would like to see Reid try to win with a different quarterback. All of the other coaches who have been in their posts for that duration of time either won a Super Bowl or have switched their starting quarterback. Has a coach/QB combo also ever been together longer and not won anything? And yes, sometimes you need change just for the sake of change and that time is now. Hey, I hope he doesn’t leave because that just means there will be nothing to worry about. Yes, Eli did have two more games than McNabb, but Donovan also had a Pro Bowl receiver did he not? The Giants receiving corps was crushed before the year as being too inexperienced and filled with no-names. Well one of them went on to catch 107 balls and Eli had his best statistical season without his go-to guy in Buress. You never hear Giants fans complaining about the lack of weapons. McNabb has also never thrown for over 4k yards in his career and Eli did it this year in less than half the amount of time. Pretty pathetic when you consider he’s in an offense that only throws the ball right?
Amazing how a post about Donovan McNabb gets turned into a discussion of Eli Manning.
Eli threw more because the running game was atrocious. Steve Smith ended up being good — what do you want, a cookie? McNabb would have bested Eli’s #s if he played those games, and we both know it. But then again, who cares? The point of this discussion is to say that it’s retarded to get rid of a QB like McNabb when he finally has a solid core of weapons around him. Save the argument that you don’t need weapons — the Patriots were the exception. They had an elite QB when they won those; McNabb is good, not elite, and therefore needs weapons, like every other QB not named Brady or Peyton Manning out there.
i dont even know why im going to waste my time here ranting and raving because its pretty obvious to me ( as a die hard eagle fan), Mcnabb needs to stay. Kolb and Vick are not the answer(s) in Philly. Mcnabb has hardly had weapons in his tenure here and has done the best with what he has been given. Having a great O line only works when you ACTUALLY RUN THE BALL OR HAVE GOOD ENOUGH RECEIVERS THAT CAN ACTUALLY CREATE SPACE FROM THERE DEFENDERS. When he have pinkston ,thrash, and freddie mitchell as there “weapons”, you need at least 7 seconds a snap before they can ever get open so your o line theory is irrelevant. As for a good defense the eagles have normally had an above average defense in mcnabbs tenure however when your only weapon is westbrook, your offense is bound to stall eventually, as teams will key on him. Defense cant bail you out everytime. Up until last year, Mcnabb’s only legitimate receiver was T.O. This also happened to be the year the Eagles made it to the superbowl. only to fall short to the dynasty the Pats were. Mcnabb was also the reason they even WENT to the superbowl that year, as T.O. didnt play in a playoff game until the game against the Pats. Mcnabb is a Top 10 QB year in and year out, an arguement cannot even be made against that. Whats even more impressive is that he has done all this with a retarted head coach who, as of last year, had one of the highest (if not the highest) pass to run ratio in the history of the NFL. This allows defenses to key on the pass easily, and Mcnabb has still managed to put up numbers every year. So unless Eagles fans want to enter rebuilding mode, its time to shut the hell up and show some respect to one of the best players this franchise has ever seen.
But even with that ridiculous run to pass ratio he still hasn’t passed for over 4,000 yards? How good can he possibly be? I understand he has been good, at times very good, quarterback, but do any of you really think that he is better than he was five years ago? His best days are behind him and holding onto him for a few more years is only going to result in taking a step back as an organization. Sometimes you have to take a hit for the long-term future of the team and in this instance it may be warranted. Not to mention he has never been able to stay healthy and will probably miss another two or three games next year so why sacrifice money and a young player’s development for empty hopes? Doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe if he would have focused a little more on winning games and leading his team than debunking the black quarterback myth we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
He’s thrown for 3,500 yards or more 5 times. In some of those cases, with absolutely NO receivers. He threw for over 3,900 last year. I understand you’re happy that Eli has set the standard with his one 4,000-yard season, but come on, let’s not act like because #5 hasn’t hit 4K that it’s some kind of criticism on what will likely end up being a Hall of Fame career when it’s all said and done. He has a very real chance at finishing with more than 40,000 yards.
The argument that he has never thrown for over 4k yards is a futile argument, as SJ posted above. As for the pass to run ratio, it makes it HARDER to complete passes when pass plays are all you call. Defenses obviously only rush 3, maybe 4 and drop more players back into coverage. And ill agree with you, he was better 5 years ago, but what veteran QB in the NFL wasn’t better 5 years ago? Nobody gets better as they age, unless your name is Favre (who can thank AP for his success). Mcnabb finally has good WR’s so if the eagles can draft lineman that hold off opponents for more than 1.5 seconds, I would like to see how dangerous he can be again next year. Who knows, maybe he can even reach the oh-so coveted 4k yards you love to talk about.
Are you serious? ShEli – never in midnight green. Yea, I agree with the writer. There are a ton of fans like me who are SUPREMELY PASSIONATE which sometimes is illogical. I think Andy should have left. He had one year left, so either way, we’d have McNabb and Andy at least through next season. Cowboys fans said to me – be happy that you ALWAYS contend. And they are right. We could NEVER Make the playoffs. You can NEVER count my Eagles out of it with McNabb and Reid and to be honest, I think we’ll get the trophy. McNabb needs to do some serious soul searching. To be honest, I want Kolb. Eli can kick rocks. McNabb is ALWAYS in the top QBs in the league. If you had to pick, they’d be – P.Manning, D. Brees, B.Farve, P. Rivers, T. Brady, D.McNabb
And our coaching philosophy is rooted in the pass. But we always win when we are balanced. That’s a coaching thing – not QB.
@Carmen
You are right by pointing out that sometimes the Philly fan base takes contending for granted, and as a die hard Philly fan myself, it’s one of the things that drives me crazy. It’s unbelievably frustrating to be in the mix every year and never win the title, but I’ll certainly take contending and at least having the opportunity to do win one over having a non-factor of a team like the Raiders or Rams. Fans of those teams pretty much know they are out of it by Week 5 every year. That said, Reid really does need to go. He’s arrogant and stubborn for not adapting his coaching philosophy. Run the damn ball and bolster the defense and stop worrying about having 5 throw it 50+ times a game. Aside from the feast or famine results of throwing every down, it’s COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE at managing the clock.
well, here it is in a nutshell..
what most people aren’t considering…
it’s not that McNabb can’t win the big one…it’s that he can’t win the big one IN PHILLY. it’s just not going to happen. the “andy and donovan show” just doesn’t deviate from what doesn’t work. “I take full responsibility” and “we need to work on some things” just doesn’t cut it anymore.
even when people were jumping on the “Andy Reid, Coach of the Year” bandwagon, i saw him for what he was; an (non)passionate, (quietly)arrogant, (non)tactician. on top of that,eagles management sees sold-out games and forgets to fill in all the puzzle pieces to win the big one.
i have no problem (unlike eagles nation) admitting that McNabb is a top 10 QB and that our chances are much better if he is our guy next year. being a contender is better than being a non-contender. but sometimes change is needed to shake things up (look at the OTHER Philly sport, where Brad Lidge changed cities and did win the big one).
it’s pretty much a no-win situation. McNabb could stay and have a bad year, or he could leave and bring a championship to a rival. eagles fans have been tough on him since day one and and the only way they’ll change their minds is if he comes back and wins the superbowl.
Personally, i’d like to see him back, along with ALL the puzzle pieces for a legitimate run at it. it would really stink if a change of cities came back to bite us all.
Fundamentally it comes to single question for the Eagles and the fans. Do you want to contend next year, or begin the rebuilding process?? I think we can all agree that rebuilding now while there are pieces in place to win NOW would be a fools errand, and we all can agree that Eagles fans might not have the stomach to go through the rebuilding process after making the playoffs consistently over the last decade. I still contend that when it comes to game planning the portly fellow wearing the head set is pretty good there are always little wrinkles then in the fourth quarter he develops a brain block and freezes; and game management is just not his strong suit.
To the point that the Patriots won with no name receivers that just isn’t true. We have all heard of system QBs well Bill B won with system receivers(Troy Brown, David Patten,Deion Branch and my favorite Bethel Johnson). That’s why those guys left and did not play at the same level. Mark my words if Deion Branch comes back he puts a 75 catch 8 TD season. Ohh and if 4k passing yards a season is the bench mark of a great quarterback I think Mr. Elway would argue with that statement; he had only (2) 4K yard seasons if memory serves. But no one in Denver said John should go, except the other teams in the AFC West; Mike Shanahan got there installed a balanced attack (it didn’t hurt that he drafted TD), but Elway was known as the guy who couldn’t win the big one. Then won two at the end of career! I will say this about Philly fans you never cease to amaze! Ohh and I am still mad at the Philly’s because as a Bosox fan I have to listen to the bloody Yankees and how the “Universe is back to order” statements…STILL
I really don’t understand how we are having a conversation about certain stats like how many 4000 yards years he’s had. John Elway is all I have to say about that argument. So lets all just drop it. Next, Mcnabb is an elite QB overall and anybody who says otherwise is just simply venting about being beaten in the playoffs.
I see this issue being similar to discussions about Dan Marino…. I wonder what everyone would be saying here… the guy has plenty of 4k plus years… TDs coming out the ying yang… but no big game victory… so I guess that means the Dolphins should have traded probably the best gun slinger the game has ever had because he couldn’t get the big one and somehow keeping him would be in line with the definition of insanity.
Actually after reading these posts and hearing about how ungrateful Eagle fans are, I hope they do trade Mcnabb, put Kolb in, go 5-11 and then shut the hell up. What would make it even better is if Mcnabb goes to the Skins and sticks it to you.. sound familiar…. yeah there’s another guy out there that just posted his best statistical numbers ever. Good old #4.
What a great season McNabb provided for my fantasy football team. I could not be happier. Too bad for the sour grapes out there.
MP – for the most part, I agree with everything you are saying, which makes it hard for Birds fans like myself to stomach all the nonsense about 5 needing to go. I’ve been behind McNabb since day 1 and still believe he’s our best shot at a title.
Ahh, the ridiculousness. The reason I mentioned 4000 yards is because he is in a system that throws the ball 70% of the time. When all you do is throw you better have numbers to back it up, which frankly he really doesn’t have. Elway was the greatest QB to ever play, but he also took a team filled with no-names on offense single-handedly to the Super Bowl 3 times before he won the last two. And Reeves actually liked to keep his team balanced so they ran the ball and in the late 80’s the NFL was a running league. The league is a passing league now and 10 QBs threw for over 4k this year. Was McNabb one of them? No. He is a very good player, but when you watched him throughout his career did you think HOF? I certaintly didn’t and don’t. And please NEVER compare Marino to McNabb. His numbers are ridiculous and McNabb isn’t even close. And about drafting some lineman and then maybe giving McNabb some time, what happened to Peters? The Eagles signed him to a huge deal and Reid proclaimed him as the best LT in football. Ryan Clady might have something to say about that. Looks like Reid sucks as a GM too. Going to be tough to bring in someone who can actually protect with so much money wrapped up in a bust and don’t say the uncapped year will allow it because team’s won’t go way over the old cap because they know it’ll return and they’ll have to shed all the extra they just accrued. And all you Philly fans can’t lie about this, would you have rather competed every year this decade or won the Super Bowl once and had a few below-average seasons mixed in. You all know the answer so don’t go spouting off.
What is ridiculous is that apparently Brandon can’t read properly.
1- Never compared Marino to Mcnabb in terms of performance… simply in terms of not winning a super bowl which is accurate not ridiculous.
2- Elway is nowhere near the best QB of all time – stop smoking crack that just simply a dumb comment and I’m not wasting anymore time since we won because I’m pretty sure they had a great running game and solid defense… not offensive powerhouse.
3- I NEVER said draft O-Line.. I said draft people to surround him with… it’s a team game step up your defense… get another RB etc. As far as I’m concerned the OL is not all that bad… but then again that could be because Mcnabb has GREAT pocket presence, but yeah I know I know there are a hundred other QBs that would be better
4-I can’t help to think that the only reason this is even a discussion is because of a few whiny Philly fans that take for granted who keeps that team in contention. Losing Mcnabb and Reid would mean you enter a losing record instantly. Talk about a dumb GM decision why would you want to field a non contender?
I’ve actually never liked the Eagles… but now more then ever I seriously hope they let Mcnabb win a ring with another team…. the problem with my wish is that the upper management of the Eagles isn’t stupid enough to trade him.
My comments were all inclusive to all of the comments posted after my last, so calm down little buddy no need to get so defensive. You seriously think saying Elway is the greatest is outlandish, really? His running back in the 80s was Sammy Winder. Ever heard of him? Please, he carried his teams in the 80s all by himself with a good defense and him, that’s all. I also have no idea what you’re talking about when you say “I’m not wasting anymore time since we won,” so I can’t respond to that, but please take a look in your history books and read or watch Elway play the game and then say it’s a dumb comment. I could understand someone disagreeing with me on that, but to say it’d dumb is ridiculous, seriously. The O-line comment was for Southpaw, not you. But drafting another running back wouldn’t matter anyway because Reid doesn’t run the ball and why do people always complain about the lack of weapons, everyone has the same salary cap people just use it differently so stop whining about lack of weapons and he actually doesn’t have GREAT pocket presence. He holds the ball too long and is very inaccurate. And really who cares about consistent contention? Are you a Bills or a Browns fan? I’m a Giants fan and I don’t want consistent contention, I want to win Super Bowls. Pretty sure Eagles fans do too.
Where to start… Just because the Eagles ATTEMPTED to get Mcnabb help with Peters ( who i said was overpaid and over-rated) doesnt mean he got the help that was needed. Peters was at best average this year, so you can’t blame that on anyone but him. I’m not going to get into your little Elway discussion because frankly I dont care about him or his team in the 80’s. Unfortunately I am only fluent in english so i have no other way of telling you that when you through the ball more than anyone in NFL history it makes it harder to complete passes consistently as opposed to running a balanced offense. Go back a few years ago when Jeff Garcia, who was not nearly as talented, took over for Mcnabb. He went 5-1 and led the Eagles to win the East, partly in thanks to a balanced offense. It was 51/49 pass to run, respectively. For some reason whenever Mcnabb plays Reid falls in love with the pass all over again. I’d love to see every QB this year through the ball 70 percent of the time and see how they end up (with the exception of brees and manning because they are robots, not humans). Mcnabb is not the problem and he has the ability to win the Super Bowl. I love the people that say “the eagles arent going to win it this year if they keep mcnabb.” My response to these asinine “football fans” is congratulations on your bold prediction. You’ll be correct 31/32 times. As for winning super bowls and not wanting constant contention, most teams are constant contenders when they win super bowls. Also, as a last note because i’m done wasting my time because keeping Mcnabb is a no brainer to me, I did a little poll of my own. I have about 15 friends who are either Giants, Redskins, or Cowboy fans. 13 of those people who think it would be a mistake for the Eagles to get rid of Mcnabb.
The question to be asked is what is at the root of our failure to win an NFL Championship for 49 consecutive years? The answer in fact is deeply rooted in organizational failure at various levels. Draft incompetence, free agent signings that have rarely panned out, (see Stacey Andrews)short sighted decisions to not resign valueable on field leaders who cannot be replaced, ie. (Brian Dawkins) not to mention many game day issues that range from poor play calling to a total lack of discipline on both sides of the ball. Oh yes and Donavan must take some responsiblility for the failure of this offense to produce in the late season.
I fully understand the criticism that we live from play to play and do not appreciate his entire body of work but to continually watch segments of games where Donavan struggles with his accuracy is getting well beyond the point of irritation. While Donavan has a huge upside as has been stated in the article you cannot ignore the fact that he has not improved his areas that are considered his shortcomingsthroughout his career specifically his accuracy. Are we to just accept this as we continue to lose ground in the NFC East? As a fan I am at the point of accepting this team for what it is and that is a team that is just above mediocre with a minimal chance to win a SuperBowl in the near future. I think it is time to tinker with the machine and the cogs that drive it starting with McNabb’s removal. Furthermore it is time to seriously conside overhauling the entire team structure form Joe Banner on down to Andy Reid. We have proven that the existing formula works to a point well short of winning a title. Lets keep the parts that work and throw the parts that dont into the scrap heap and start again. If not, yes we may continue to knock on the door off and on again for another 49 years without ever knocking it down. Is that something any of us want to endure? I know that I dont.